How close is the Swordfish 24F compiler?

normnet · Post by **normnet** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:19 pm

I did a quick C PIC compiler price comparison.
Addition's and corrections please.

Microchip C Compilers and IDE
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcpl ... e=en534868
MPLAB C Compiler for PIC18 MCUs $500
MPLAB C Compiler for PIC24 MCUs $500
MPLAB C Compiler for dSPIC DSCs $500
MPLAB C Compiler for PIC32 MCUs $900
MPLAB C Compiler for PIC24 MCUs and dsPIC DSCs $900
MPLAB C Compiler Package for PIC18/PIC24 MCU and dsPIC DSC $1200
MPLAB C Compiler Package for PIC18/PIC24/PIC32 MCU and dsPIC DSC $2000
use with Microchip MPLAB
Demo's after 60 days less optimizations
MPLAB C Compiler licenses currently come with free updates.

Hi-Tech Software owned by Microchip
http://www.htsoft.com/

10/12/16 standard $500
1 year renewal $100

10/12/16 pro $1200
1 year renewal $240

18 standard $500
1 year renewal $100

18 pro $1200
1 year renewal $240

dspic3x/pic24 standard $900
1 year renewal $180

32 standard $895
1 year renewal $180

32 pro $1500
1 year renewal $300

enterprise all $3800
1 year renewal $760

Plugs into MPLAB IDE
Demo's after 45 days less optimizations

CCS
http://www.ccsinfo.com/index.php
http://www.ccsinfo.com/ccs-product-catalog.php

PCW IDE Compiler PIC24 and dsPIC $350
PCW One-Year Maintenance $200

PCWH IDE Compiler PIC10, PIC12, PIC16 and PIC18 $500
PCWH One-Year Maintenance $250

PCWHD IDE Compiler PIC10 PIC12/16 PIC18 PIC24 / dsPIC, ALL FOR $600
PCWHD One-Year Maintenance $275
2K program size limit and a 30 day demo

Byte Craft C compiler
http://www.bytecraft.com/
MPC supports the Microchip PIC 12/14/16/17
use with Microchip MPLAB
$NOT LISTED

Microchip seems to have lowest cost/updates but a better compiler/IDE would be a plus.
Which compiler would be best for a C beginner in terms of support and examples?

Norm

rmteo · Post by **rmteo** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:55 pm

Another thing to consider in making the move to C from BASIC. I would be interested in the total development package - IDE, compiler and most importantly, hardware debug capability. These features need to be seamlessly integrated. The MPLAB/C18-C30-C32 package is somewhat appealing in this respect - also, the fact that you get the entire thing for free (less optimizations after 60 days, not a big deal for most) is a plus. Hardware debug is sorely missing from most (if not all) BASICs, unless you are prepared to jump through hoops.

Some more food for thought. Why limit yourself to PICs? With C, there is a huge selection of other MCUs available. In particular, offerings based on the ARM Cortex M0/M3 cores are very interesting compared to PICs.

normnet · Post by **normnet** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:24 pm

One nice thing about PIC is you can plunk down an 18 or 28 pin Dip package and start programming.
Arm has no small pin count or DIP packages.
Neither does PIC32 that I know of.

Norm

rmteo · Post by **rmteo** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:55 pm

I concur. MC (and perhaps Atmel) are probably the last few holdouts in the MCU world that still make DIP packages.

To get the performance/features of a typical Cortex M0/M3, you would be looking at a PIC32 and as you pointed out, they also are not available as DIPs. Interestingly, I just posted this on the MC forum:
http://www.microchip.com/forums/tm.aspx ... y=&#485604

Francis · Post by **Francis** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:22 pm

Anyone had a go with the Psoc stuff from Cypess?

normnet · Post by **normnet** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:09 am

ARM pluses:
ARM can go as low as around 44 pins or large enough to run Linux.

It's code (C) is portable as well as the hardware as several manufacturers provide ARM chips.

It's 16/32 bit and DigiKey lists one ARM as high as 800MHz.

As such some consider it the "industry standard".

I think though I will learn C with C18 before trying ARM especially for
the smaller pin projects.

Norm

octal · Post by **octal** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:47 pm

Hello normnet,
it all depends on which ARM core you are using!
If you use ARMv4 or v6 for example (like LPC2xxx series from NXP), you'll for sure NOT find any chip with less than 64 pins (I think not even 44).

If you go for a new low power core like ARM Cortex-M3 or Cortex-M0, you can find little chips.
On Cortex-M3 for example you can see Luminary catalog (now acquired by Texas Instruments), they have some 28 pins DIP packages (in smt tought), that goes up to 50MHz (about 75MIPS).

Now even for other big chips, you always find on ebay or other sources a lot of DIL adapted chips.

Regards

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:13 pm

off topic , but hey treads off topic anyway

What is the concern for pin count and SMD ? a 64pin TQFP is really easy to solder even by hand

octal · Post by **octal** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:31 pm

For having worked on gsm phones repair for more than 1,5 years, I soldered almost all kind of SMT and other surface mount chips.

But...

Raistlin wrote: a 64pin TQFP is really easy to solder even by hand

try to say that to a beginner

normnet · Post by **normnet** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:58 pm

What is the concern for pin count and SMD ?

64 pins is usually more than what is needed and it's nice to be able
to plunk down an 18 or 28 pin Dip package on a breadboard and start programming.

Norm

octal · Post by **octal** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:08 pm

It's right.
For some applications we really don't need too much power nor too much pins.
I personally still use some PIC10Fxx (especially in 6 pins package) and PIC12Fxx as signal generators or to replace a very simple logic because they give more flexibility and the package is really very small (altought the price is higher than 74xx/40xx).
PIC and AVR still win when only little packages are needed. But I really (also) don't see when an application will ever need a 32Bit processor with only 8 pins (maybe for encryption/decryption

)

Regards

normnet · Post by **normnet** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:47 am

There is a strong market for smaller pin micro's as Microchip is the sales leader in 8 bit micro's.

Norm

Francis · Post by **Francis** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:21 am

Yes, I doubt if my 50 pence Chinese RGB garden light has an ARM in it.
Isn't there a phrase "Horses for Courses" that covers the use?

rmteo · Post by **rmteo** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:26 pm

I agree with octal. The only situation where I see using a PIC (in particular the 6-pin PIC10's) or similar device, is when space is severely constrained - even then only on a volume commercial application. For everything else, one of the small Cortex M0/M3 ARM's (such as the 7x7mm, 33-pin, 65 cent LPC1114) is what I would use. The LPC will do anything that the PIC can, and then some - the converse is is not true. Plus, with the ARM, you can scale your application up to 144-pin, 1mB Flash, 6kB RAM without having to muck around with different/incompatible product families, developments tools, etc.

normnet · Post by **normnet** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:28 am

with the ARM, you can scale your application up to 144-pin, 1mB Flash, 6kB RAM

What are some of these projects which make use of 144-pin, 1mB Flash, 6kB RAM ARM?
PIC32 also has the larger capacity but I'm not sure what it would be used for.

Norm